Article Series: Getting into a great guild. 5 Steps to getting into your dream guild: Part 4
Getting into a great guild: 5 Steps to getting into your dream guild: Part 4. Blizzard have change the way that World of Warcraft works. Raiding is now open to most players. Due to this, pugs are even worse than ever. It's becomming even more important to find yourself in a great guild. We'll cover Step 5: The application itself, the interview and the trial.
Step 5: Applying:
A lot of people say applying to a guild is similar to applying for a job. While this is rather accurate, it also has distinct differences. When you're applying for a job, you're agreeing to echange your time and expertise for pay. This is the main difference, since when applying to a guild, you're looking for entertainment, achievement, experience and loot.
Most of the time the guild that you're applying to won't know you from a bar of soap. It is your job to help them get to know you and believe that you're capable of filling the position they have available.
The first piece of advice: Take your time.
Second piece of advice: Write your application in a word processor, not online.
There's a saying in business, that's not so well known:
If you copy someone's idea in school, it's called "Cheating". In Business if you copy someone's idea it's called "Market Research".
How does this apply? Look at the applications that were successful and unsuccessful. Mimic the successful applicants, not the unsuccessful ones.
Language - Use your Guild's language:
Apply in the language that the guild uses. Generally, this will be english. Use capitals, punctuation and words that have meaning. Avoid using "leet" speak.
Making is easy to read. Most forums have the ability to use bold. Bold the questions and topic headers and leave the text as normal. It makes it a lot easier to follow.
Why you left your previous guild is often an important topic:
It's also not as important topic as you would think but it often needs to be addressed.
What your guild will often want to see:
- A change in your circumstances (but it's all settled down).
What your guild will hate seeing:
- You trash talking your previous guild. (it's a sure fire sign of someone who cannot take responsibility for their own actions).
- Guild hoppers. These are people who jump from guild to guild looking for free loot and then move on to greener pastures.
- People who only want to raid during the holidays. While xmas holidays are often long enough, the other holidays tend to be too short for you to be useful.
Proof:
There's a saying, "In god we trust. For all others, Cash or credit card!"
If some random came up to you and asked you to lend them 5000g for their epic flying training, would you do it? Of course not. You have no idea who they are and you'd have no reasonable assurance that you'd get your gold back.
When we're applying to a guild, we're almost asking the same thing. "Trust me, I can perform".
This is where proof is such a powerful tool.
Log parses:
Uploading your logs to a log parsing web site and linking to it will help your cause. Many guilds notice when there is no link to a log parse.
References:
If used correctly, this will be one the most powerful tools you can use in your application, especially if it comes from a source the guild (or its officers) trust.
The best references come from raiders within the guild (if you can make a good constant impression if you pug with them). The next best come from other raid leaders. If you are unable to get references from either of those, other respected raiders on the server will do fine.
To get a reference, talk to them before you post your application. Once your application is posted, get them to make a reply to your post saying how much of a joy you are to raid with.
The more good quality references you get, the better.
Applying to multiple guilds at the same time:
It tends to be a bad idea to apply to multiple guilds at the same time. Some guilds (particularly the social raiding guilds) don't really care. To some of the top end guilds, you can look like you haven't made a decision to join them and you're just looking for a raiding spot, as opposed to a long term home.
If in doubt, stick to applying to one guild at a time.
Answering the questions:
There are a lot of people who seem to think that a guild won't notice if you don't answer a question. Rubbish! It just shows that you cannot follow instructions and pick and choose what you obey.
Selling yourself:
This is a tough thing to do for many people. There are some tricks to help with this.
First and foremost, always try your best to take the perspective of the guild you are applying to.
Think about what they'd like to hear:
For example, we have a question: Why are you applying to us? Why us? (30 words minimum):
Im not going to blow smoke up your ass. I dont know u guys, i dont know any of your members. But I am looking to return to serious raiding after a hiatus and more casual play. i previously was raid leader of XXX on XXX realm on a toon called XXX. i am hardcore player. i dont stand in dumb shit, i dont make same mistakes twice. i dont randomly afk. and i dont qq over loot. i am dependable and pull good numbers. i dont have any aspirations to lead, or be officer or any crap like that. just want a solid grp of non fails.
A question like this lets you show a few things. First it shows whether you've done your research on who we are and whether you believe we're a good fit for you.
It also shows us what your focus is. Whether it's on yourself, on the guild or on the team.
While this applicant may know his or her stuff, you can obviously tell where their focus is and their lack of research to who we are and whether they think they will fit in.
After the saddening end of raiding of XXX. I wish to move onto a guild that is well established and has a history and wish to contribute to helping you down progression bosses. Gear is not of importance to me, but I understand its value in helping us down the bosses. So in final I wish to raid with the Pitch Black crew because I hear you are a friendly bunch and want to see those bad guys dead.
This is from a good recent applicant. This one pulled most of the heart strings that we are looking for. He's not a loot whore, but understands the importance of loot. It also says that he's looking for a friendly bunch, which is exactly the enviroment that we have. It shows that he's done some research on us.
The trick of selling yourself is working out what the guild wants to hear, said in a way that expresses your situation.
Armory link:
Make sure you put in an armory link in your application. If you don't, they may assume you're lazy, which is not a good image to project.
Telling the whole story:
If your whole story makes sense in your application, it's going to increase your chances.
One huge thing is you don't want to get caught in a lie.
Spell checking:
This is such an easy thing. I don't think it warrants much attention apart from to say the obvious. Do it. Copy and paste your app into a word processor so your spelling is checked - AND FIXED.
After you write but before you post:
I suggest that you put down your application and go do something else for a while. Half an hour to an hour would be what I'd call a minimum.
After that, come back and re-read your application from start to finish. Make sure it reads well and doesn't have anything obvious left out. If possible, get a friend to read it over and make suggestions.
If you've done that, it's time to post your application! (Copy and paste)
Logging out in raiding gear:
When raiders aren't raiding, they're often playing with their off spec or pvp'ing a bit. With dual spec so popular, many people often log out in an off spec.
It's not as much of an issue these days with Armory updating so fast, however, you should do your best to ensure that you always log out in your main spec gear.
If an officer wants to look over your gear, they can through armourer at their leisure.
Persistence and follow up:
Just be aware, you may not get an answer straight away.
Following up on your application is a good thing. I'm not talking about childish pestering, but following up. While some warn you against it, I'm of the opinion that if you're proactive and persistant, you're going to increase your chances. Even if the answer becomes a no, you'll find out faster than before.
The trick is to ensure that you follow up with the correct people.
I'm not an officer in my current guild, but you wouldn't believe the amount of people who come to me looking to follow up on their application.
Checking for feedback and questions often:
Applications are normally done through the use of forums. Check your application thread often and respond to questions in a timely manner.
The Interview:
Some guilds interview their potential raiders. Some simply just throw the fresh meat into the grind and see how they come out (bring them to a raid).
Some of these interviews happen on vent, or on in-game chat.
The best way to prepare for an interview is to simply know your class well and be honest.
There are a few bad questions to ask. They are most specifically to do with things that you should either already know, or things that show you expect others to do your work.
Questions like, "What's the economy like on your server?" and "Is Flask of Distilled Wisdom better than Flash of the Frost Wyrm?" are typical signs of a raider that will not be prepared. This is something you want to avoid.
Questions about how the guild's raiding works are fine. This assumes this information is not already available on the web site. If it's already publically available, then those questions fall into the "bad question" category.
An interview is also an opportunity for you to get to know your potential officer, raid leader or guild master (depending on who is interviewing).
Remember also, you want to give a good impression. Showing that you have the right attitude that the guild wants is what you want to do (Remember, you did this homework earlier).
You also want to make sure the guild feels that this is your first choice.
The trial:
If you're successful, this is where it all starts. The trial process.
Just be aware that the trial process is a two way street. It's an opportunity for you to get to know them as much as it's a chance for them to get to know you.
Get to know how they work: Many guilds have raid leaders who assign healers, some use healing leads where others let the healers work it out amongst themselves.
While many say this is the time where you should go out of your way to impress them. Some say that you should give it 200% effort so you make it into the guild.
Since most people apply upwards to a guild, this presents an opportunity to learn and improve. It almost always offers great opportunities for you to ask lots of questions and learn. The trick is to learn to ask the correct questions. This will show your willingness to learn and improve yourself so long as you apply the information you get.
Be aware: When you're on trial, most guilds don't give you priority on loot. This means that full members get loot over you for their main spec. Usually you'll get priority over members off spec. I've even heard of situations where loot gets disenchanted instead of it going to a trialist. If this happens, it's a good indication or poor leadership and you'll probably want to find another home.
Some guilds test your temperment while you're on trial. This can include how you react if you miss out on some best in slot loot or if you're substituted (sit on the sidelines) for a night or two.
Other things guilds pay attention to is attitude when the team wipes. This is important since on progression encounters, you're going to wipe a lot. Someone who cannot keep their cool after a few wipes is normally not going to handle 20+ wipes in a night well.
Healing assignment: Guilds often also pay attention to whether you can follow your healing assignment.
Attendance: If you only can only do the minimum while you're on trial, expect that you won't pass your trial peroid with most guilds.
How you get along with the guild: Officers will also look at how you get along with the other raiders. While you're not expected to get along with everyone, causing drama will often cause your trial peroid to be cut short... in a bad way.
Another test is also how you react to problems. Officers want to see you talking about problems. For example: You've been given an assignment and a place to stand, but you're having a problem with someone moving into your space. Having words with that person and if that doesn't resolve the situation talking to an officer should be your next thing to do. Don't blow your top.
Extra Topics:
Stupid Questions:
While it's fine to ask questions, refrain from asking questions that are easily answered on the internet.
An example of questions that I've been asked which shows that you're not quite ready to raid:
How much gold will I need for repairs?
Your gold situation:
While I'm a big believer that your gold is your own business, it's not always the case when raiding together.
No guild master wants to see you begging other raiders for gold, or even worse, failing to repair your gear or failing to buy consumables because you're broke.
You have a responsibility to ensure that you have enough gold (or at least a constant supply) to be able to maintain your raiding obligations.
Looking at the bigger picture:
Most applications for guilds are public.
I've seen a few applicants abuse the guild they are applying to if they turn them down. Then we see them apply to us or another guild. They're almost always immediately turned down.
While abuse is often an over reaction, it shows an attitude that very few guilds want to have within their ranks.
Most applicants don't understand that recruiting officers often read the applications for other guilds.
Even if you're turned down, don't despair. I'd suggest you be polite, thank them for their time and move on.
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